Cortney Novogratz on designing the life that works for you

In this inspiring first episode of Season 7 of the podcast, Cortney Novogratz, one half the home design duo, The Novogratz, and mother to seven kids, talks about how starting her company with her husband was a way to bring her career and her priorities as a mother together, so she never had to choose between work and family. In this moment where work and home is blurred for so many moms, Cortney offers advice on how to make "the new normal" work for you, regardless of your living situation.

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Liz Tenety: The journalist and creator of the double shift podcast. Catherine Goldstein wrote this on Twitter this week: "It's not going to be apparent immediately, but a generation of mothers have been radicalized by the events of the last year. And it's going to have a profound impact on family structure politics, education, and activism going forward." And there are a few more tweets in Katherine series, but I think she's really pointing to the reality that so many mothers are living through, which is that our systems and structures have not been designed in a way that puts mothers and families at the center.

The way that the pandemic unfolded, the way that mothers' careers and women's careers were devastatingly impacted by the pandemic and the economic follow-up it made clear that no one was thinking about the impact on mothers. 3 million women were forced out of the workforce, but if there is a silver lining to me, it is this: we are beyond a tipping point. We are at the point of creating our new normal. And I really believe that we all have opportunities to reimagine our own identities. Re-imagine what home and work look like and emerge out of this pandemic confidently, knowing that it's up to us to be the change.

Liz Tenety: Hey, mama. Welcome to the motherly podcast where we have honest conversations about modern motherhood. I am Liz Tenety, the co-founder of Motherly and I am a mother of four kids myself. I am so excited to begin the season of the Motherly podcast with an incredible lineup of amazing women, starting with Cortney Novogratz.

All month, we'll be featuring home design experts who are going to offer advice and insights about how to make our homes, whether we own them, whether we rent them, no matter how big or small, how to make our homes, inviting spaces for nurturing and loving our lives as families. And this is something that Cortney knows really well as one half of the husband and wife design team duo, The Novogratz. Cortney, who is also a mother of seven, has been flipping houses before that was even a thing. And she was the star of Bravo's "Nine by Design" and HGTV "Home by Novogratz," as well as the Co-author of four design books. She is now the co-founder of the online store, Shop Novogratz. Something else that Cortney knows is how design can be about a lot more than just reinvented your living space.

That same concept can be applied to how you live your life in every sentence. And in this inspiring conversation, Cortney talks about how starting her company with her husband was a way to bring their careers and priorities as parents to seven kids together. She essentially designed her life so that she never had to choose between work and family.

Cortney, welcome to the Motherly Podcast.

Cortney Novogratz: Thank you for having me.

Liz Tenety: So you and your husband both came from relatively large families. I know you have seven children. What do you think surprised you the most about motherhood and what continues to surprise?

Cortney Novogratz: Well, I was the youngest of five and so I always wanted to have a lot of kids. I love chaos, so to speak. I enjoy a lot of people around, but what surprised me was this was a lot different when you're the one in charge, as opposed to being the youngest of five. So, I knew about sibling rivalry because I had experienced it in my own childhood. But really until you, the mom, you don't think it's that big of a deal and it is a reality.

So, I always try to stay out of it unless there's blood drawn or something like that. But, you know, with motherhood, there's always surprises. I don't think you could ever be prepared because you can't really plan how. It goes, you have to just roll with it.

Liz Tenety: You said you always wanted to have a large family, but how did that inner dialogue evolve over the years as your family grew?

Cortney Novogratz: Obviously, when Robert and I fell in love, he's from seven I'm from five, that was a priority of ours. We were going to have this really big, amazing life, but we're also going to make sure we took time to have children. We never put a number on it. We're never said we're going to have seven or something like that, but we just definitely knew we were going to have a lot of kids.

We were fortunate that we were able to have two sets of twins, all natural, very spontaneously. We did not plan that at all. So that's how we got seven so quick, but we definitely, I do think it is important to have those conversations with your partner, and to find out, do you even want children?

And then how many do you feel like having that? And those conversations are real. And so every time it was time to maybe think about having another baby, we would say, are we ready? And yeah, let's go for it. We had twins again the second time and things like that, but we always were on the same page for the most part.

There were times living in New York and raising my family when we had four kids, when I was like, are we ready for number five? And I felt like I needed to at least be able to walk down the street by myself. I had a baby in a front pack, two doubles, you know, a double stroller, a child on the skateboard hooked to the double stroller.

And so, we definitely talked about number five a little bit longer than we normally do. And I thought, oh, I'm in such control. I'm going to plan my life. Well, guess what? I turned up pregnant, with twins again. So, you can't plan too much, but I do think it's a lot easier if you both want the same number of kids, because it isn't going to be very fun if one wants three and the other one only wanted one. So, I do think those conversations need to be talked about and shared.

Liz Tenety: I feel like the thing about a large family that might be hard for people who don't even want a large family is having one kid feels so hard. And I'm curious on a, not even day-to-day level on a, like moment-to-moment level, how do you not get overwhelmed? What does that inner dialogue or belief that you have that helps you feel centered even in the midst of what you've described as chaos?

Cortney Novogratz: I definitely get overwhelmed on any day. I mean, especially this year has been so trying. I mean, we talk about mental health with all your kids or with your loved ones, your partner, yourself, it can get really hard. But I definitely am someone that doesn't worry too much. I just can't. We're going to go to the hospital for stitches. You know, somebody's going to get bullied or one of my kids may be the bully that day. You know, I've kind of seen it all.

Liz Tenety: I'm sure as your children have grown up, at least I know I've experienced this… my oldest is nine. They surprise you in the relationships that they form and in the ways that they begin to help. And then it does get these dynamics evolve, especially with a large family. You might have a helper that you didn't have in the past.

Cortney Novogratz: Right. I agree. I mean, it is fascinating. I'm sure, especially doing motherly, you've met so many incredible women. And through the years, whether I had one kid, then three, then four, then six, and seven on the playground or wherever, a lot of people would go, I don't know. I'm thinking about maybe having that third child, but I just don't want the diaper stage, and this and that.

I never had that mentality. I never had that mindset. I was like, that's a short amount of time, even though it feels like hell sometimes when you're in it. It's so short and it's really not about the diaper stage. It's about a personality, another loved one that you're bringing into your family and they are going to contribute eventually, and they're going to have opinions and they are going to give and take as much as we do.

I always looked at it like that. I was so excited to see what that baby's going to look like. And, you know, they're pretty much, we are born who we are. I have to share… I was with my twelve-year-old major and one of his close friends. And we were just talking and I don't even know how the conversation came up, but we talked about being a young parent or being an older parent.

And I will always remember this. And I promise you, it was two weeks ago. This kid said this and I've heard a lot of things... My oldest is 23. A lot of kids have come through our doors and a lot of touch my life, but this story will always stand out. So, we talked about being a young parent or a parent, and I said, "Sam, and what do you think about it?"

And he goes, "All I can say is if you're a young parent, how neat that you get a lot longer with your child." And I just was like, oh my goodness, you are so cool. He just understood life in a great way.

Liz Tenety: I think that that mindset of leaping happily into the unknown seems, at least to me like an approach you also brought to your career.

Can you talk a little bit about those early days, developing your design business? Where were you in your journey of parenthood at the time? And how did you think in the beginning about what you could build or what you were trying to build?

Cortney Novogratz: Well, Robert and I, when we were planning our wedding, we bought a condemned building basically, and we learned everything on the job and we made it into a two family home to help pay for the mortgage.

And we then couldn't afford to really even buy drapes or furniture. And so, we rented out all the extra bedrooms to all of my actor friends, and then we brought home a baby boy. And so, we had always loved design. We were always that couple that, had we come over Liz and like hung out with you and your husband, 2e would have danced all night with you or maybe rearranged your furniture and then gone to the flea market the next morning. And so, we always had that passion. So, I don't know if our career found us or if we found it. But we basically that first home that we were designing the life we wanted, that really kick-started our career.

And so, we just then started to decorate for friends and get hired. And then we basically moved out of that entire building and rented it out for more money and the bald had more real estate. And so we just started carving out. In downtown Manhattan, could this be a home? And it was a gunshot. We turned it into a house.

It was a parking lot. We built a house, anything that can be spaced. We just started tackling along the way and adding kids and really designing the life we wanted to work for ourselves and be with our family.

Liz Tenety: Dramatic pause on what you just said about designing the life that you want, because reading your books, that is the theme that I want our listeners to kind of just pause wherever you are in your career in life and hear this conversation in the light that I hear it from Cortney. Of maybe not knowing where you're going, but deciding at the beginning to design your career around the life that you want. I think in our culture for so long, especially in a male centered business culture, for example, that we've thought of work as something that happens at the office.

But since the beginning, reading what you've shared, you have decided to build your careers around the family and life that you want. A specific example in your book was about your dining room table, I think, and having your employees come to your home to meet you, to make it work for you. And of course, we've all had a crash course in remote work over the course of the last year, but I just found it so inspiring to imagine more and more women and men having the confidence to build careers that put them in their families and wellbeing at the center.

Cortney Novogratz: I will say there's been times I've seen like a friend that's maybe a designer as well, or maybe they're in a completely different industry, but they have this like big headquarters or fancy office. And I'm just like, oh my God, I thought I had arrived, but I guess I really haven't. I need that. But then I always check myself, always remind myself that more is not more. We operate because we keep things, we keep our overhead down, I'm home with my kids and then clients come over. Maybe, I'm talking to the two to first second as they go upstairs to teach my son or help my son or a piano teacher.

Our best work is when we allow our homes to be our showroom. And that means in the home, the kids are usually home. We love what we do, Robert and I, and so we never want to turn one off. And we also love our family most of the time, so we never want to turn that off. But I do think I remember that very early on, we always love to throw parties and entertain. And we were like, Oh, we love, we would love to have live music without, but we can't afford that. We can't afford a band. And we went on the subway and picked up a saxophone player and he ate and drank for free and we had live music. And so that was just the beginning of how we were going to carve out the life we wanted. This big rich life that's really not rich financially. It's just rich in ideas and then executing them and making them work. And so, the best part about this year is hopefully people can be more vulnerable, expose themselves more, invite their home and work to co-exist together. I mean, we did a reality show and people before reality was big and people were like, aren't you scared? And I was like, no, I've been doing this already. I've been dragging my kids to work, meeting with a client, wearing a baby in a front pack. So, if I'm going to lose a job because I happen to have my child with me, well, then you probably shouldn't be hiring me.

Liz Tenety: You've described this as creative chaos. What do you really mean? Can you paint a picture of that?

Cortney Novogratz: Everything, our house is creative and maybe for someone that is not an artist, it would seem a little not organized, but I'm a Virgo. I am very organized, but it's creativity. It's chaotic. Like, for example, if you come over to my house, Liz, with your four kids, I have all the hooks out in the open.

So, you knew exactly where to hang up your coat and your son's backpack in his jacket. It just automatically is organized, even though it's all out in the open, there're no jackets on the floor. They're all pretty much hung up on the hook, but it's not a precious walking, gorgeous closet. It is what it needs. I mean, at times people come to a few of my homes through the years and yeah. Maybe they've dropped a package off and they've said. Is this a school? What is this? Like, actually, no, it's our home, but, you know… so I keep things very organized in the sense you knew exactly what to do.

Liz Tenety: It's a really interesting approach to design. As a definite non-designer, but I'm interested in it, the word that came to mind for me was playful. But what also struck me, I guess, is, you don't apologize for family life in the way that you design. There's all different kinds of flavors that are in vogue right now, like minimalism, for example, which hides everything and puts it, especially like the baby stuff away. Why is it important to you as a designer to not hide the kids' stuff and to kind of build it into the design of a home or just any space where you live your life?

Cortney Novogratz: Well, I mean, I'll be honest. We learned so much from our kids. I love to travel with them because you're seeing a place through their lens in a whole different way, the same way when you're falling in love with your partner or your husband or your girlfriend.

And so, in my home, some of the kids' work is actually our best pieces. They could just be, you know, when they were really little, maybe taking crowns and gluing them together. And it was just an art project that kept them busy. But looking at it, I was like, Oh, it's actually really cool. So, that would sit on the dining room table for a long time.

I would never even need to buy cut flowers. And because that was so colorful, that was so kind of in the moment of what was happening in our [00:16:00] lives. And so, again, I'm not a hoarder. I am not a messy person. I am very clean and organized. But I'm okay with kids' things and how people really live. My home is a reflection of who I am.

Not everyone lives like that. And so, with clients, I always say, how do you live? Are you someone that cooks a lot? Are you someone that prefers not to cook or do you, do you really need that walk-in closet? Are you up to having some hooks out in the open? And so, for me, I have a big basket right now because we've had a harsh winter.

All the gloves and hats are right there. You know, so anyone that comes over to visit, they can help themselves. It's a really cool basket. It's a vintage basket. It's a design beautiful piece to look at, but it's also filled with a lot of crap. I do think if you. Put some of your best pieces of art, even in your kids' rooms and have ownership for them, like ask them what color they want in their bedroom.

They start to know that they're part of this family too. And everyone has an opinion. I'm not saying I let my daughters put posters all over their walls and make it a mess, but I let them express themselves. Because maybe one of them will end up being a decorator one day. You just never know. So, I never say no, no, no, no. I invite them in.

Liz Tenety: I want to talk about working from home. We're entering this new era of re-imagining home and work. You've been such a pioneer of that. Just trying to make work, work for you and your family. I know for me, I can't concentrate. If I can hear my children crying when they're with the babysitter.

What do you think? Not just for yourself, but working with clients, how do you think about this sort of new age of remote work and how to maybe keep work in its physical place or its mental place so that it doesn't actually take over your whole life? And I, again, want to separate this period of trauma that we have been through collectively and having kids at home and the fear and the danger that was out there and this new post pandemic future, where maybe you have accelerated. New way when we're going back to normal of thinking about these things.

Cortney Novogratz: All of these are great conversations to have because there's a new, new way that we all are going to live. And the incredible thing is that it's allowed us to be with our kids more. You know, there's some parents that are home for dinner and family dinner nights are happening again, which they should have always been, but life gets busy.

Liz Tenety: I remember the first month where we lived, I saw dad's out for bike rides with their kids at lunch, and I thought, wow, yeah. When would you ever see something like that happen? And it's so human to do that and to be with your dad, if you're a little boy, but I just, it was so noticeably different than the life that we ordinarily live.

Cortney Novogratz: I grew up in South Georgia. My parents ran a business together, which is so interesting that I work with my husband, but I remember my mom told me, I don't know, I would just take him in the playpen.

She would go to work and I'd be in the playpen. And so fast forward I'm at work and I've ex I mean, I've exposed my kids to how we work. I mean, literally Major would sit in the high chair with two of our young designers. And we'd all eat lunch together and they had no clue what babies were like. They, to this day, fast forward, one of them recently got married and she was like Major was my first colleague. Sure, we've lost jobs because we are like, listen, I can't promise that my child won't run through the zoom behind us. I'm going to try not for that to happen, but it's all about if you do your best, you carve out your space in your house where the kids know mom's working all the time, they're respectful the same way you give them a desk and a workspace and their own bedroom or their own environment.

And let them know that they need to work and, and be creative or just play, or have their moment of expression. Well, that's where my area is. So, it doesn't mean that we can't go into our office area and print something for school or, you know, things like that. But they do have, I feel like a respect for what Robert, you know, their father and I do. And hopefully we just keep having those conversations, even out of this pandemic.

Liz Tenety: This is sort of a pet theory of mine. It's not even what I'm planning to talk about, but since you brought it up, I mean, throughout human history, children have been largely in the physical presence of their parents and seeing their parents as almost their role models, and they're apprenticing next to their mother or father. And I'm curious if you've seen it that way in a deliberate way, because not that there's anything wrong with going to school, but you know, our model of education has been, you send kids out there for other adults, but there is something special that you guys have done too – to unapologetically show your kids what work is, and also what it can look like to your, to your clients, what it can look like when you're not apologetic about being a parent. I'm just curious if that has been deliberate for you.

Cortney Novogratz: Work is hard at times. I mean, there's, even though we love what we do. I mean, it's interesting with my kids. Anyone that has gotten to a successful place. And I'm not talking about loads of money, but they are successful and busy and maybe have a few employees, whatever their job is, they are successful. They work to get there. You have to work to get there. You have to achieve and do and accomplish. And especially during social media times now kids think it just.

You know, it just showed up. It just kind of like, it just didn't work that way. And they see Robert and I fight. I mean, there's been times we're going back and forth about a project or taking this job or not taking this job, or he's tired that day or I'm tired of that day. And you know, he's like, okay, I'll just do it.

They see the good and the bad. But we expose it to them. We invite them in, I mean, some may like to do this type of work one day, some may not, but they all are creatives. They're all kind of artists in their own way. But I hope that they see us being vulnerable is a sign of strength.

Liz Tenety: You mentioned designing your life. And certainly this is a time, as we get to the new, new, normal. That a lot of women especially are re-imagining what their careers could look like. I'm sure you have friends who have changed. Jobs during this period of crisis and are re-imagining every day, I wake up and hear about the trend of people moving to new spaces because not only of the pandemic, but because of this accelerated move to remote work, your family has lived all over the country.

You've re-imagined your career for yourself as a family. What advice would you have for a listener who wants something different? Who wants this period to be a time of transformation professionally, and for their family, you seem to have a lot of confidence in the way that you've in the way that you've approached this integration of, of work and family. But what advice would you have for others who are wondering what that means for them?

Cortney Novogratz: Well, change is hard. Change is really hard, even when we want it. Sometimes, you know, for example, we had all seven of our kids in downtown Manhattan. We took off to LA with all seven of them and I had to find schools and my daughters were turning 16 and it was hard.

I am definitely someone that does not worry too much. I have to trust my gut and I lean on my husband. I'm fortunate to have him. The reality is all nine of us got up and moved, even though I'd worked in Los Angeles, really moving there and holding up all the kids, you know, on any given day, someone was having a hard time.

And I, you know, about six months in, I was like, who's holding up me. Where's my girlfriend that I'm going to go have a glass of wine with? The few friends here, but they're not, you know, I, I had seven children in downtown Manhattan, all at the same hospital, all at the same preschool, where are my people?

But with that, Life slowed down for us. And we leaned on each other and found a deeper strength that I don't need to know any of us knew we had. And so change is good, but also be honest and build your community. Fast as you can in that new place, whatever that is, if it's rural or if it's urban, if it's near family or not near family, start to rebuild that.

And as you get older, it is harder and harder to when you first get out of university. If you do go to college, you know, you never have those friendships again, or maybe in your work environment, you have that kind of office chat. Every stage, as we get older, it's harder to build a roots. It's harder to build a foundation.

But it is possible. And I'm in a rental townhouse right now, and we're here for a short time, but I quickly move in, you know, as we've been here for 10 years or something, get all the boxes out and create a home and do that in your new environment. Do that in change. Find out where your coffee shop is, find out where your people are going to be.

If you go to church, go to church. If you don't find a book club, you know, figure out. What's that new community because no one can do it alone.

Liz Tenety: You brought up community and needing community. I know you've been such a champion of the village and what it really takes to raise a family. I read that you. You had a Christmas card one year from your whole village, I'm sure people ask you all the time.

Like how do you do it? But I know I'm sure that the village is part of it, but you know, I'm curious on a deeper level, what does the village represent and mean to you both as a business owner and a mother?

Cortney Novogratz: Well, it means everything. And the fact that in one sense, back to that LA story. We went there for a few years, had an amazing time, met lifelong friends.

My daughter's built an incredible life there -- she is at USC. It broadened our world and I'd always thought, well, I'm traveling and exposing them to things, but we really lived there, but it was time to come home to that village. I walked back. Two people that had worked with us for many, many years. Contractors, babysitters designers, godmothers, grandparents, aunts, and uncles, the deli guy in home, even though I moved quite a bit, I mean, it literally takes an army to keep all of this under control, but the most important thing.

With that village, you have to give back. You have to nurture that. So, if you wanted to call it my community outreach or whatever, we don't lock our doors. Our doors are always open and you need, you know, shock to the cast of characters. They come through here. But those cast of characters are my village that are holding us up all the time.

And then we're sheltering them when they need to be held up. And that's how it works. You have to nurture your sisterhood, nurture your girlfriends, nurture your marriage, nurture, you know, your babysitter. She's not just there just so you could get up to work and take your zoom call. How was her weekend?

Liz Tenety: You clearly have such a well defined style, personal point of view. But of course, when you're working for clients, they want that point of view, but imbued in their vision of their space. So, maybe our listeners are not going to hire you for their next project, but they have a little bit of time to hear that wisdom. What is your process for working with clients and how do you help individuals and families re-imagine what their spaces can be. Where do you even begin?

Cortney Novogratz: Well, I usually began to go over to their house or their apartment and went to see who they are and do they have a collection of something? For example, a couple were marrying each other and they were a blended family. And I said, do you guys want to start a new family wall?

Let's do a new family wall and let's pull that together. And so, you know, it really just gets to know them. Are there pieces they have to keep? Do they want everything, all new? What are they going through and why have they hired me? And you know, you don't need to hire me. I mean, the nice thing is there's all these incredible.

Sites and places and people are really incredible designers now because there's just so much inspiration. So you ask yourself, why do I want this change? What am I doing? Am I renovating? Or am I just repainting? And do I want to take a little bit of risk and try some new colors and live with color? And it doesn't mean you have to do an entire room.

You could just do the ceiling or a signature wall. And so, I really try to get to know the person. And then for me, if they're hiring me, I try to do the heavy lifting. I actually go through the photographs with them and build their family wall, but then give them freedom that they can continue that because our families keep growing and shifting and changing.

And so, letting them know, oh, I can do that, once Cortney has gone. Or I can trust myself and listen, I didn't go to design school, Liz. So, if there's worlds out there, I'm breaking them left and right. Because I never learned them. And I think that's what design it's your home ultimately. So have fun with it.

And to just start, you know, taking some risks, moving a piece of furniture around, but I promise you your, I will never lie. If you're looking at something and it looks off to you, chances are the chairs. You can go back into the other corner if it doesn't look good in that spot. And so, I always tell people, believe in yourself, you can do it.

Or if you're decorating with a husband or a partner, you picked that person for a reason y'all can pick a paint color. It should be fun. It's not that complicated.

Liz Tenety: You mentioned something about making sure. I think you said your space is meeting your needs, and I know you walk through your client's home and see how they live.

When you begin your process in your own story, your family has continued to evolve. It seems like you don't have one way of imagining your future that you just take it day to day. Is your philosophy with your husband? I guess that that sort of brought up for me that. It's okay to maybe embrace the homes that we have right now.

No home is perfect. Embracing the homes, we have and also embracing the stage of life that we're at. So, here's a real example from my life. I only have hangers for my kids jackets and I haven't, I just moved to a new house two months ago. I haven't installed, you know, hooks for them to put their jackets on.

Well, guess what? The jackets and the boots are sprawled all over the floor. And maybe I think what you're driving at is yeah. Put the hooks at their level, put it out in the open, but also that. Someday there'll be able to reach the hanger and then we can put that part away and evolve to the next step.

Cortney Novogratz: There's never a dream home. Just to be clear, there was never a dream home. We think there is.

Liz Tenety: You've seen so many amazing houses. You said there's never a dream home?

Cortney Novogratz: I've walked away. I'm not kidding you. When I say walked away, I, you know, cause I was flipping houses, you know, there's been days that I wasn't ready to leave, but it's a business first and I don't ever want to stop.

And I was like, oh, I didn't quite get it to where I wanted it. And then we sold it. But the reality is it should always keep evolving. So that's the whole thing is, is trying to have that fun conversation. I mean, listen, I've gone through the house, screaming and yelling too. If there's anything it's all left on me.

I mean, I have the same stress. Like everybody else. But I just think enjoy where you are in the light. A lot of people don't invite someone over because the house isn't done yet. Are you kidding me? You're going to wait to live life and have fun. Now it was now through a tablecloth over a construction table.

Nobody will notice, I think, live in the moment, use the good China for God's sakes. I grew up in the South or like my mom would pull it out just for Thanksgiving that drove me nuts because of the dust on it. I was like, why don't we have these extra plates that are so well that we never get to use?

Liz Tenety: Well at Motherly, we believe that motherhood brings out our superpowers. And I see those as almost otherworldly forces within us that sometimes we don't even know. Understand or they don't get revealed until we become moms. And I'm curious, Cortney, what is your superpower?

Cortney Novogratz: What's my superpower. I actually think that I like to dance a lot. So, my superpower is you're going to have a good time, if you hang out with me.

Liz Tenety: I had a great time. I wish our conversation wasn't coming to an end. Thank you so much for joining us on the motherly podcast.

Cortney Novogratz: Yes. And enjoy your four kids!

Liz Tenety Well, that's it for this week's episode, Cortney, thank you so much for joining us and thank you for listening to the motherly podcast. Next week. We'll have another incredible home design expert to give us all the advice on re-imagining our home spaces. I can't wait for you to listen. So as always, I would love it if you spread the word about the motherly podcast, if you can leave us a review on Apple podcasts, it takes about 30 seconds and it really helps other parents and mothers discover our show. I love reading your feedback. I swear. I read every single one. The Motherly Podcast is produced by Jennifer Bassett with editing from Seaplane Armada.

Our music is from the Blue Dot Sessions. I'm your host, Liz Tenety. Thank you so much for listening.

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Hosted by Liz Tenety

Liz is an award-winning journalist and editor, and the co-founder of Motherly. A former Washington Post editor, she thrives on all things digital community + social media strategy. She's passionate about helping to provide women with more support, (and way less judgment), on the journey through motherhood. This podcast is an extension of her commitment to hosting honest conversations about modern motherhood. Liz resides outside NYC with her husband, two sons, one daughter and one amazing au pair.

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